Resurrecting dire wolves is just the beginning for Colossal Biosciences’ Ben Lamm - Masters of Scale Recap

Podcast: Masters of Scale

Published: 2025-12-23

Duration: 34 min

Summary

In this episode, Ben Lamm discusses the ambitious project of resurrecting the dire wolf, exploring the intersection of cutting-edge genetic science and ethical considerations. He shares insights into the scientific process behind this endeavor and addresses the controversies surrounding the concept of functional de-extinction.

What Happened

Ben Lamm, co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences, has gained attention for his company's groundbreaking work in resurrecting the dire wolf, a species that went extinct around 12,500 years ago. During the episode, Lamm explains that the dire wolf is not merely a fantasy creature from popular culture but a real predator that once roamed North America. Using ancient DNA from a 13,000-year-old tooth and a 72,000-year-old skull, Colossal employs a method called somatic cell nucleotransfer, or cloning, to create embryos that are implanted into domestic dogs. Just 60 days after this process began, the company successfully produced its first dire wolf puppies, a feat that Lamm describes as a monumental step in the field of functional de-extinction.

The conversation delves into the ethical implications of this scientific endeavor, particularly when critics question the morality of 'playing God' with nature. Lamm argues that there is a moral obligation to act, especially in the face of potential biodiversity loss. He acknowledges the criticisms but emphasizes that the project represents a significant advancement in genetics, with the potential to contribute to conservation efforts. By using advanced AI and genome engineering, Colossal is not just replicating the dire wolf but is also uncovering surprising truths about its biology, such as the fact that these wolves were likely white, a detail previously unknown to scientists. Overall, the episode provides a fascinating look into the complexities of resurrecting extinct species and the innovative approaches being undertaken by Colossal Biosciences.

Key Insights

Key Questions Answered

What is the process of resurrecting a dire wolf?

Colossal focuses on functional de-extinction, which involves advanced genetic techniques rather than straightforward cloning. By utilizing ancient DNA from remains, they identify the genes that define the dire wolf and compare them to those of its closest living relative, the gray wolf. This process involves genome engineering tools and AI analysis to recreate the physical attributes that characterized the dire wolf.

Why is there controversy around the dire wolf project?

Critics question whether the creatures Colossal is producing can genuinely be called dire wolves, as they argue that these animals may not be identical to the originals. Lamm acknowledges this criticism but believes that such debates are a natural part of scientific progress. He highlights that the project's achievements in genetics are groundbreaking, marking a significant milestone that overshadows the controversy.

What ethical considerations arise from cloning extinct species?

Lamm argues that the potential loss of biodiversity necessitates action, creating a moral obligation to explore de-extinction. He recognizes that some view these efforts as 'playing God,' yet believes that addressing ecological challenges justifies the efforts to resurrect lost species. This perspective sparks vital discussions about humanity's responsibility in conservation.

What other species is Colossal Biosciences working to bring back?

While the dire wolf has captured public attention, Colossal is also pursuing the woolly mammoth, Tasmanian tiger, and dodo. Lamm mentions that updates on these projects are provided regularly, indicating that the company's ambitions extend beyond just the dire wolf, showcasing a broader vision for restoring lost species.

How does Colossal use AI in their de-extinction efforts?

AI plays a crucial role in analyzing ancient genomes to identify the genetic makeup of extinct species. By comparing these genomes to those of closely related species, such as the gray wolf for the dire wolf, Colossal can pinpoint specific genes responsible for defining traits. This technological integration allows for a more precise approach to recreating the characteristics of extinct animals.