$30B Founder: How To Rank #1 In ChatGPT - My First Million Recap

Podcast: My First Million

Published: 2025-09-15

Duration: 1 hr 11 min

Guests: Dharmesh Shah

Summary

Dharmesh Shah, co-founder of HubSpot, shares how to adapt SEO strategies for the AI era with Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). He explains practical steps to rank in ChatGPT, the importance of building communities, and offers insights on how AI is reshaping discovery and marketing.

What Happened

Dharmesh Shah, co-founder of HubSpot, discussed the origin of inbound marketing and how he built a $30 billion company by creating a movement rather than just a product. By focusing on educating customers and adding value before extracting it, HubSpot created an industry around inbound marketing, which Dharmesh credits for their success.

The conversation shifted to the evolution of SEO into AEO (Answer Engine Optimization). Dharmesh explained that search behavior has changed, with people now asking ChatGPT and other AI tools for answers instead of browsing traditional Google search results. To adapt, businesses must structure content in Q&A formats, enable chatbot crawlers, and use structured product catalogs to optimize for AI responses.

Dharmesh emphasized that while SEO's principles still apply, AEO demands a tighter focus on creating content directly useful to AI systems. He highlighted the importance of enabling GPT bots to crawl websites and suggested monitoring AI-driven traffic through tools like HubSpot Analytics, which now tracks AI referrals.

He shared practical tips for ranking in AI-driven results, such as reframing content to answer specific questions and ensuring that websites use clean, structured data. For ecommerce, structured product catalogs that include inventory availability are key to gaining visibility in AI-driven results.

The hosts and Dharmesh discussed how the new discovery paradigm shifts power from Google’s traditional search to AI tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity. Dharmesh also outlined how companies can leverage these shifts to remain competitive, noting that the stakes are higher because appearing in AI results is often a zero-sum game with fewer options presented to users.

Dharmesh also shared his thoughts on the “playful builder” mindset, explaining that consistent iteration and grinding out ideas are critical for success. He highlighted his own process of building small projects, some of which generate consistent revenue, and how this experimentation keeps him engaged and creative.

The episode concluded with Dharmesh sharing details about his latest projects, including an AI-powered visual design tool and a domain name marketplace. He also reflected on how AI could reshape industries by creating more efficient markets and discussed his passion for building as a form of personal fulfillment, regardless of financial gain.

Key Insights

• Inbound marketing worked for HubSpot because they educated customers before selling to them. By teaching businesses how to attract leads through value-driven content, they created not just a product but an entire category, turning HubSpot into a $30 billion company.
• Google search is losing ground to AI tools like ChatGPT, and with it, SEO is evolving into AEO (Answer Engine Optimization). To rank in AI-driven results, businesses must structure content in Q&A formats, enable GPT bots to crawl their sites, and use tools like HubSpot Analytics to track AI traffic.
• Ranking in AI-driven search is a zero-sum game because these systems give fewer options than traditional search. For ecommerce, structured product catalogs with real-time inventory visibility are critical to gaining attention from AI answer engines like ChatGPT and Perplexity.
• Dharmesh Shah believes consistent iteration beats chasing perfection. His 'playful builder' mindset drives him to launch small projects—some purely for fun, others generating steady revenue—and this experimentation fuels both his creativity and professional success.

Key Questions Answered

What is Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) according to Dharmesh Shah on My First Million?

AEO is the practice of optimizing content to rank as answers in AI tools like ChatGPT. Dharmesh Shah explained that this involves structuring content in Q&A formats, enabling GPT bots to crawl websites, and using structured data to make information easily accessible to AI systems.

How did HubSpot create the inbound marketing movement as described on My First Million?

Dharmesh Shah explained that HubSpot coined the term 'inbound marketing' and focused on providing value through free content and education. This strategy pulled customers in naturally, creating a community around the concept and positioning HubSpot as the go-to tool for inbound marketing.

What practical steps did Dharmesh Shah recommend for ranking in ChatGPT?

Dharmesh recommended enabling chatbot crawlers like GPT bot, structuring content as Q&A, using clean structured data, and monitoring AI-driven traffic. For ecommerce sites, he emphasized the importance of structured product catalogs with real-time inventory data.